UK Airsoft Players Union (UKAPU), Announcing the launch of the new players association Options

[Furey]

We are proud to announce the launch of the United Kingdom Airsoft Players Union (UKAPU), an association dedicated to the preservation and enhancement of the Airsoft Skirmishing hobby.
UKAPU has been formed by a small dedicated group of Airsoft players from around the UK to represent and support you, the Player and alongside UKASGB and UKARA present a unified front to the British authorities and press, whilst providing our members with exclusive additional benefits.
Membership application will be available from the 24th April 2010, and for those who prefer to do things in person we will be visiting various sites around the UK over the coming months.
To apply for membership, find out more about us or to see which events we will be attending please visit our website at www.ukapu.org.uk
or you can email membership@ukapu.org.uk

Our website has a comprehensive FAQ section, but you will almost certainly have further questions and comments for us. We would ask that instead of posting your questions in the thread below you register on the UKAPU forum and ask them there. This will prevent us answering the same questions multiple times for each forum, and sets an important precedent; If forum users like yourself were to now view UKAPU officials answering questions on this forum, they will come to expect all questions levelled at UKAPU on here to be answered. We honestly don't have the time to trawl all the forums looking for your questions and UKAPU discussions. Feel free to discuss us below but please dont think us rude or disinterested when we do not get involved.

Just pop on to www.ukapu.org.uk/forum and ask away in the 'public UKAPU discussion' section where we will be more than happy to chat with you. Feel very free to cut and paste our answers back on this thread.

Matt Furey-King
Chairman, United Kingdom Airsoft Players Union

[Spider1V]

Hi All

Just been reading through their UKAPU.

Basically Put

Aims
To enhance the enjoyment of the hobby for players residing in the United Kingdom.
To ensure that the hobby is able to continue into the future and without unnecessary restriction.
To enlarge the number of skirmishers participating in the hobby.

Objectives
To allow Members to have their opinions, interests and objectives for the hobby and the Association taken into account.
To enable Members to link with other players, team and sites.
To promote the hobby as a positive activity to the general public.
To respond to negative and untruthful depictions of airsoft skirmishing and equipment in the media.
To educate players and airsoft gun owners as to safe use of airsoft replicas and on or off of the field.
To promote an ethical and responsible approach by players toward the hobby.
To maintain a mutually beneficial relationship with existing or future airsoft Associations that share our values.
To encourage all Airsoft players in the UK to become Members of the Association.
To spread awareness of the Associations and its aims.

While I applaud any organisation that will promote the sport, I can't really see any thing different offered from any of the sites I have played at. Will need a lot more value for my 5 quid. Maybe when the future stuff rolls on then maybe yes.

The Future

Depending on the level of support we receive and what our members want from the association, we will be more benefits as the association matures. Some ideas that have been floated are;

UKAPU Regional divisions which will keep you in contact with your local skirmish scene
Competitions and skirmish sites organised and rented exclusively for members use
Insurance for your Airsoft equipment
An official paper skirmish diary to help you prove entitlement to the skirmishers defence
Airsoft replica microdot tagging and stolen kit list to aid recovery
Training days
Organised trips to overseas skirmishes
Annual UKAPU big game and social event

Your forum thoughts?

[master shake224]

i would be interested to hear who their "contacts" are .
also the retailer you could get discounts from
or basically anything on how they will achieve their aims

to me it all seems a bit vague?
a good thing but a non-specific good thing

[FuZZ]

I dislike anyone saying they represent me when they know nothing about me.

To be honest guys most if not all of their aims are what airsoft playing individuals should be doing by their own motivation.

What do I gain by being a member that I don't already get with other schemes like UKARA?

[infra]

My thoughts (and this is purely my own opinion).

Great list of objectives, but you have no business plan as it were. It's all well and good defining the things you believe in and listing some objectives, but what you haven't done is to state how each of these objectives will be met.

As already stated, there are other organisations with common objectives to those given above. Do we really need another body? Would it not be more effective to strengthen an existing organisation?

"To allow Members to have their opinions, interests and objectives for the hobby and the Association taken into account. " - We already have this thanks to online forums, direct contact with site owners and the representatives who feed back to UKARA at the AGM's.

"To enable Members to link with other players, team and sites. " There are several big forums and facebook groups which do this already.

"To promote the hobby as a positive activity to the general public." - How exactly will this be done? Yet another website containing information on airsoft is not going to cut it. You'd have to stand on the street and give out leaflets or advertise to the general public through other media that they are likely to see.

"To promote the hobby as a positive activity to the general public." - This is the responsibility of every airsofter. We should all try to get others involved and explain the positive nature of the hobby. We should all demonstrate that we are responsible people, enjoying a fun hobby, and not a bunch of 'gun nut yobbos'.

"To respond to negative and untruthful depictions of airsoft skirmishing and equipment in the media." - I like this one. Hopefully some counter arguments will be published next time the tabloids try to suggest that a £5 corner shop BB gun can be "easily converted to fire live ammunition". I wanted to slap the person that wrote that on so many levels.

"To promote an ethical and responsible approach by players toward the hobby." - Again, we need to all be doing this for ourselves. The day the idiots dominate airsoft is the day we will all be punished for their stupidity.

"To maintain a mutually beneficial relationship with existing or future airsoft Associations that share our values." - Why not simply join them and ask where they specifically require help?

"To encourage all Airsoft players in the UK to become Members of the Association. " Why? You'll need to prove that you have some weight and can actually achieve the things you say before anyone will hand over a membership fee.
I like to promote airsoft too. I tell my friends and colleagues about it but most of the time they just turn their noses up. This doesn't achieve anything.

"To spread awareness of the Associations and its aims." - If you deliver on your promises, this will happen automatically. Nobody is going to sing your praises until you prove your mettle.


Just my immediate thoughts. Hats off for the effort thought. Watch this space I guess?

[Furey]

Some well composed questions, please register on our forum (very quick and easy- easier than writing the posts were) and cut and paste them and we shall gladly answer. You can well imagine that we didn't write our constitution without putting some serious thought into it.

http://www.ukapu.org.uk/index.php?board=11.0

This post has been edited by Furey: Apr 26 2010, 12:25 PM

[master shake224]

I dislike anyone saying they represent me when they know nothing about me.

im guessing you're not a fan of politicians then?

"To promote the hobby as a positive activity to the general public." - How exactly will this be done? Yet another website containing information on airsoft is not going to cut it. You'd have to stand on the street and give out leaflets or advertise to the general public through other media that they are likely to see.

i like that one, even paintballers usually have a stand near the bentalls centre in kingston
the fact that airsoft has spread so far by word of mouth has been astonishing in itself - a bit of PR grubbing or a couple of stands in shopping centres could do a lot to legitimise airsoft as a the sport in the public's eyes

the fact is for the vast majority when someone sees a guy with full camo and pictures of guns he/she cant resist taking a look

[Spider1V]

even paintballers usually have a stand near the bentalls centre in kingston
the fact that airsoft has spread so far by word of mouth has been astonishing in itself - a bit of PR grubbing or a couple of stands in shopping centres could do a lot to legitimise airsoft as a the sport in the public's eyes

the fact is for the vast majority when someone sees a guy with full camo and pictures of guns he/she cant resist taking a look

So we have a bunch of cammo'ed up people with REAL LOOKING WEAPONS standing in a shopping mall............ Could work! My choice would be Tony P, Sam, Me (unshaven) and Kris (After a night out at the Agincourt!) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) .

[master shake224]

just a stand with pictures really - the weapons would be a bit much unless you had a police escort - or wanted one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

maybe a card board cut out or two?

[Spider1V]

Hi Guys,

Please find some comments I made on the UKAPU website. General statements and frankly some rather general comments back.

One can sense the passion for the sport, but it does fall short, in my mind, as I think he missed my sentiments on providing the feed back, not just to our forum, but to others as well (in fact he could have taken the top 3/4 and I recon he would have covered nearly 80% of the UK skirmish players)

I know we have some 'interfaces' with the UKARA who sometimes read this forum, I was wondering if they would care to comment on the first point that UKARA are keen to see such organisations formed?

From a personal opinion I am a little disappointed, in that a new organisation wants me to join their forum immediately to see general comments made, when they posted on ours advertising their new association. But I wish them well in their endeavors

Spider1V - Out


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Hi All,

I am Spider1V, a Moderator from the Airsoft Forum.co.uk. Many thanks for posting on our forum to introduce your new association. As has been mentioned by many other people, anything that promotes the sport of Airsoft is always a good thing. Reading through your post on our forum, I did do a follow up and posted your Aims and your Objectives and we have already solicited some response.

I think the main queries that are being raised are;

Why? When there are other associations (UKARA/ AOBA)
What does it truly offer that is different? Say to a good site managing and maintaining a level of professionalism
Who are the 'contacts' (retail) that discounts can be gained from? People always like to save money!

I think (and I see you have read the posts in your thread) that a number of members believe that the sport is doing a good job of self maintaining, monitoring and that maybe this is potentially another level that can run the risk of 'Over Promoting' the sport and attracting the very people who may bring the sport in to disrepute.

Maybe some direct answers to the post made by INFRA on our forum would go a long way to addressing this, and providing you with more people signing up to your forum and association. While I appreciate there a a number of Airsoft Forums, maybe to build your 'Brand' you may wish to start by replying to some of them on their 'Home Turf'?

Spider1V






Logged



Furey
Chairman
Administrator

Posts: 288



Re: Airsoft Forums .Co. UK
« Reply #1 on: Today at 07:43:21 PM »

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Welcome Spider1V thanks for registering.

Why? When there are other associations (UKARA/ AOBA)
UKARA is a retailers association and is extremely keen to see that UKAPU is formed. I spoke with the UKARA chairman many times during the formation of UKAPU to keep them informed of our progress.
Reference the AOBA, they are a sites, retailers and players association so very different from UKAPU. please see http://www.ukapu.org.uk/index.php?topic=76.0 for more information.

What does it truly offer that is different? Say to a good site managing and maintaining a level of professionalism
I'm not sure I understand this question. We offer something that is unique and not an alternative to what already exists. In reference to sites, we would not interfere with their operation as this is the concern of the owners of the sites and the UKASGB, not the players association.

Who are the 'contacts' (retail) that discounts can be gained from? People always like to save money!
I certainly do! With the amount that I (and many others) spend on kit I think that even a 10% discount with a major retailer would pay for my paltry £5 UKAPU membership within a month. We are in some negotiations and it would be innapropriate to say whom with untill an agreement is reached. Further to which we will need more members to give us the clout to negotiate retailer discounts. Its a chicken and egg situation and being that we only launched 48 hours ago we wont have much to show in the way of confirmed discounts for a while yet.

I think (and I see you have read the posts in your thread) that a number of members believe that the sport is doing a good job of self maintaining, monitoring and that maybe this is potentially another level that can run the risk of 'Over Promoting' the sport and attracting the very people who may bring the sport in to disrepute.
The Home Office, with whom we have an agreement to self govern airsoft, do not feel that airsoft is properly regulated if the players have no interaction with the process. At the moment they are essentially talking with two trade bodies. We are heading towards another eventual crisis (bearing in mind that airsoft will be here for decades more) and if and when it happens we don't want to be caught short and have to form an association as a reactionary measure like the ABA.
In regards to over promotion goes, I haven't seen anyone promoting airsoft on a organised national level.
As far as accidentally drawing attention to skirmishing goes have a look at the infer trust or gun control network websites, or in fact just keep an eye on the print press. These people are hell bent of drawing negative attention to skirmishing and RIF's. We are not under the radar and have not been for a long time.

Maybe some direct answers to the post made by INFRA on our forum would go a long way to addressing this, and providing you with more people signing up to your forum and association. While I appreciate there a a number of Airsoft Forums, maybe to build your 'Brand' you may wish to start by replying to some of them on their 'Home Turf'?
On your final point I must re-iterate that to make an exception for one forum or one person would open the flood gates. I posted the introduction thread on 17 different web forums and people would expect a reply and would all be pissed off if we made an exception for a single forum. There is no way we could continually chase 17+ forums for as long as UKAPU Exists. If people are really serious about airsoft then they will sacrifice 5 minutes to register on here. Considering I've used nearly every evening and weekend working on UKAPU for the last several months, it isn't much to ask for.

Thanks for your time and interest, I hope that was the sort of thing that you were after


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[FuZZ]

The Home Office, with whom we have an agreement to self govern airsoft, do not feel that airsoft is properly regulated if the players have no interaction with the process. At the moment they are essentially talking with two trade bodies. We are heading towards another eventual crisis (bearing in mind that airsoft will be here for decades more) and if and when it happens we don't want to be caught short and have to form an association as a reactionary measure like the ABA.

This makes me deeply uneasy... by "we have an agreement" does he mean airsofting in general or UKAPU specifically has an agreement. You cannot expect to have interation with the majority of airsofters, unless you were to implement a policy whereby a license is required for ®IF ownership. I have no desire to join UKARA (nor probably any other scheme/database) and have not since it formed back in '07. I have still purchased RIFs legally, I am still defined as an airsofter by the home office. The only database I would join would be a govt operated one and only if it was a legal requirement for the owning of RIFs. But thats just me.

[FuZZ]

im guessing you're not a fan of politicians then?

Difference is you vote for a politician. You choose who represents you.

[Trig]

Difference is you vote for a politician. You choose who represents you.

Not if you voted Labour last time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Back on topic.
Airsoft as it stands is self governing , the retailers dicide who can buy a gun UKARA is retailer run. They also dicide which other retailers can join UKARA.

Do we need a union ? Honest answer , not until we need it!

The problem us proper airsofters have (this would include 99% of people on airsoft forums) is there are still to many ways to put the Hobby in a bad spot light. Many members of the public will not be aware of the difference between me with my weapons and those stupid cows that stared sloting people in the shopping centre in manchester. As long as idiots that should have been clubbed at birth can get hold if RIF's or IF's and a can of spray there will always be problems.
How could this be solved ?
1 answer (NOT SAYING THE RIGHT ONE ) Would be to licence airsofters , we would all have to have a licence to by our M4's and AK's , involving police checks and all sorts , Minor Threat or Basil could give a better discription of what would be involved.
This however comes with its own MASSIVE draw backs, the chances are if a person had ever been in trouble with the law , they would not be able to airsoft , the private sale of airsoft weapons would become very hard or illegal. And last but by no means least , the first time a licenced airsofter losses the lot and starts waving his M4 about , the Hobby would get banned and the olice would come knocking for the weapons.

This is wear the Union would have its power , it could possibly stop the ban. If a airsofter get his/hers weapons taken by the police , the union could step in and get them back. These are the only things i would want from a union , hense not needing it till i need it (hopefully never).
As for discount from retailers , nice but should not be a major thing. I can get a discount already , im UKARA registered (which you will have to still be) and i can sweet talk who ever im buying from, buy enough and you will get money off or free stuff. So a note to all you who want to start a union or association or what ever .... We are not Magpies , stop trying to dazzle us with shinny shit.

Until a proper union is set up that will have clout to prevent the ban , protect me when/IF i need it , im not really intrested.

As far as advertising goes , airsoft is a hobby you look for if you want to do it. Sure there are some people who have never heard of it , so they go paitballing instead , then they hear of airsoft and move to the good side.
The problem with open advertising that i see is , for every one person that turns up and takes the hobby seriously , you will get 10 turn up that should not be left unsupervised with a knife and fork let alone RIF's.

These are My 2 penny's.

This post has been edited by Trig: Apr 29 2010, 12:53 PM

[master shake224]

thank you spider1V for representing the ambush sentiment

Further to which we will need more members to give us the clout to negotiate retailer discounts. Its a chicken and egg situation and being that we only launched 48 hours ago we wont have much to show in the way of confirmed discounts for a while yet.

that's pretty pertinent for the whole union, i think most wouldn't be interested in paying £5 a year to an organisation with about 5 members.
maybe we should bite the bullet and join because these type of things will keep cropping up and failing for the same type of reasons.
personally im going to see if it lasts the month though because although i think we need to jump aboard one of these, im not yet convinced this is the one.

Do we need a union ? Honest answer , not until we need it!

by the time we need it, it'll be too late

[Spider1V]

thank you spider1V for representing the ambush sentiment



by the time we need it, it'll be too late

My pleasure - There has been some behind the scenes discussion, however I have now sorted that out!

Maybe not too late. It would have to be bad to have a complete shut down of Airsoft. They would have to have a period of 'consultation' before they passed that law, and that is when I think you will see the various associations, unions and the like, hopefully banding together to address the issue.